9/5/2011 1:51:46 PM
Leviathan
Posts: 17
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In general, Pathfinder PC races receive a +2 stat pump bonus as part of their initial character generation process. Whether it's a straight +2 bonus (like for humans), or a +2/+2/-2 combo like for many of the other demihuman races, it all works out the same in the end.
IMC I only allow chromithians, dover, pickers, valco, and war valco. All of those 5 races follow that same mathematical routine except the valco, who just get a straight +4 CON and that's it. I assumed, rightly or wrongly, that that was an oversight, and have assigned them a -2 WIS modifier to bring them into line with the other OB7 races I'm allowing.
Was it an oversight or did you guys (the designers) mean for valco to just get an extra 2 point edge? I intend to stick with the +4/-2 adjustment unless there is something major I'm missing. Otherwise it wouldn't seem fair to the other players to get nipped for 2 points at the point of character generation...and, although the valco are cool, I also don't want an entire party of valco! That wouldn't happen in either case, but..the question is still valid, I think.
L
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"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda, Jedi Master
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9/6/2011 11:43:52 AM
ShadowcatX
Posts: 53
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Honestly, I don't think the Valco need a stat penalty. Consider not having a stat penalty part of their racial abilities if you like. They're still not as powerful a race as say chromithians or dovers (never surprised!?!). And really, constitution is kind of a meh stat. Everyone wants some, but no one wants it to be their highest stat.
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9/6/2011 6:40:09 PM
Leviathan
Posts: 17
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Are you kidding me? CON is *h*u*g*e*!!! In a system like Pathfinder, hit points are critical and getting a +4 bump means you'll have an 18 even if you only assigned a 14 there to start! Especially in a setting like OB, where it is pretty much assumed that you're going to be tangling with some exceptionally nasty opponents. I mean, this is not a setting in the vein of Midnight or the Conan OGL, where the stats and magic might well be somewhat low key. OB is an "in your face" smashmouth setting with (many) larger than life warriors and gigantic monsters that are more the rule than the exception.
In any event, I'm thinking of a +4 CON/-1 INT/-1 WIS compromise, so as to keep it even and not pimp them overly much. The surprise bit for dovers is cool, but it really depends on what you're going to play. A valco ranger is pretty sweet with that extra favored enemy bonus available to them. Plus the -1's don't really factor in all that much given that if you wanted to play a spellcaster, valco probably wouldn't be a route you take anyway.
L
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"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda, Jedi Master
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9/10/2011 8:46:32 AM
ShadowcatX
Posts: 53
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Allow me to expound on what I meant. No class wants constitution as the highest stat. I'd take an 18 int, 14 con wizard over an 18 con 16 int wizard any day (Substitute strength for a barbarian, wisdom for a cleric, etc.). Con is nice, but let's be honest, at 1st level its 1 hit point per 2 points, and even at 20th its only 20 hp. (Honestly, by 20th hit point con's bonus to fortitude saves is as important as the hp, IMO.)
That said, try and stay away from splitting penalties to stats. If you want to check out how balanced the race is, I recommend going to paizo's site and looking at the race building guide. http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/houseRules/pFRaceBuildingGuide
edited by ShadowcatX on 9/10/2011
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9/10/2011 4:50:16 PM
Leviathan
Posts: 17
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I understand what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree with you...especially as regards the wizard example (or cleric, et cetera). OTOH, I put together a dwarven fighter last year and had the option of going 20 STR/18 CON or 18 STR/20 CON and decided to take the CON route just to try something different and I still don't regret it. The party at that time consisted of a bunch of folks who mostly wanted to play spellcasters and roguish types and they really needed a hard-to-kill tank to anchor the line (kind of like a good center in American football) and solidify things and so far so good. Plus, to use your example, that 20 CON will give that dwarf an extra 100 HP by the time he makes 20th level (if he lives that long) and allow everyone else the freedom to do whatever other cool stuff they wanted to do from the outset.
I hear you about the splitting stat mods thing, but, honestly, I'm not real wed to the idea that it's that critical down the road either way, especially in PF/OB7. You've got stat pumps every 4 levels where you see fit, stat pump items, and even evolutions on the OB end of it. Meh.
Mind you, I'm not saying that I crunch the numbers as well as the Paizo crew (who do it for a living) or have as much imagination as this OB design crew (amazing stuff, really...I can't believe this setting and this website is as dead as it always seems to be, given how awesome this stuff is, but whatever, that's a different post), but I've been playing frpgs since...well, almost since they started, let's say...and I doubt it'll be too much of an issue eiher way.
BTW...thanks for your ongoing feedback Shadowcat. I'm going to be giving the OB pocket plane a good solid "live fire test" from this point onwards and for a while, so...it's good to get viewpoints from some real OB-philes, so to speak.
L
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"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda, Jedi Master
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9/12/2011 10:29:32 PM
Greg Dent
Administrator
Posts: 195
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I honestly can't remember what happened here, so probably a mistake. -2 to Int or Wis makes sense. However, it's entirely possible that we got playtest feedback that they were too weak and I just took out the -2 as an easy way to up them. I'm with Shadowcat through in that they aren't all that overpowered as is and a -2 isn't really going to do more than short change them on skill point or will save. Probably not necessary. If you're a stickler though, give them the -2.
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President, Epidemic Books
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